Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

by **Holy-Fool-P-Zombie** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:34 pm

Here's my favorite "strange bird" song :!:

by **[email protected]** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:06 am

Randy, seriously? Please show some respect for the discussion even if we disagree.

by **Holy-Fool-P-Zombie** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:08 am

[email protected] wrote:Randy, seriously? Please show some respect for the discussion even if we disagree.

Like I mentioned before, Jeff - I follow the Holy Fools tradition, which is a valid historical Christian tradition, started in the Russian Orthodox Church. I'm sure you wouldn't want anyone here to NOT be true to their Christian beliefs and practices - would you? :?:

by **[email protected]** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:56 am

I am not familiar with the ideals of that tradition nor whether it is 'valid' or not. However, I thought the goal of this forum and Christian discipleship and discussion was to grow closer to the tradition of Christ himself, thus happily closer to one another. I thoroughly enjoy laughter and laugh a lot, yet the ministry of Christ also communicated serious truths with serious implications. Differences might be laughable, insignificant, or very significant.

Does the Holy Fools tradition allow for persuasion, correction, sympathy, pain, rebuke, serious matters?

by **Holy-Fool-P-Zombie** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:08 am

[email protected] wrote:I am not familiar with the ideals of that tradition nor whether it is 'valid' or not. However, I thought the goal of this forum and Christian discipleship and discussion was to grow closer to the tradition of Christ himself, thus happily closer to one another. I thoroughly enjoy laughter and laugh a lot, yet the ministry of Christ also communicated serious truths with serious implications. Differences might be laughable, insignificant, or very significant.

I would suggest reading the Wiki link here entitled Foolishness for Christ. Then you might understand where I am coming from, along with the historical context of the tradition. And I might just ask some questions - in the matter of Socrates - to understand where you are coming from.

by **[email protected]** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:10 am

sure please ask, public or private is fine.

by **Holy-Fool-P-Zombie** » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:12 am

[email protected] wrote:sure please ask, public or private is fine.

First things first. Did you read the Wiki article in its entirety? :?:

And if you label a topic with the words "free will", "universalism" and "strange bird", expert someone - like myself - to focus on the "strange bird" aspect.

by **[email protected]** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:11 pm

Randy, you raised some good questions, perhaps off topic from the title of this post, so I created a new post over here http://jeff-martin-reposted.signedon.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6681. Hope to talk to you more there.

by **[email protected]** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:12 pm

It doesn't make any sense to me that God would create a being whose purpose it was to decide what men do.

Just to clarify your language choices do not match what I understand the Bible to say about our will and God's will. God did not make puppets. Only he is a God big enough that could make living being with minds, wills, and emotions. Human beings make choices as the Bible is clear.

Yet because he is a loving father there are some choices he makes for us out of pure loving grace that we have no choice in. For example he chose to pay for our sin, in fact against the will of Peter and against all our self-righteous wills. Our will had no part of that. He also chose to accept the sacrifice of Christ as the guarantee of the salvation of all mankind. Our will had no part of that either. That was a deal between the Father and the Son.

Now regarding our decision to be happy about this good news, we observe that a few are, while most are not. This is a decision that must be made by each individual. We observe the a few have trusted Christ, while most do not. Why? Our birth nature of self-righteousness cannot make this choice without a change by the Holy Spirit. God does not make the choice for us, but the Holy Spirit frees us from our corrupted nature, effectively influencing us to make the decision, each one at the time of his choosing.

by **LLC** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:16 pm

The notion that God chooses people is foreign to me. In think this idea has been perpetuated throughout the ages by the ruling classes, those of "royal blood" who were "chosen" by their gods to enlighten others, who unfortunately were not given the capabilities to make decisions for themselves. The majority of humans, being just stupid animals, corrupt in their very nature just didn't know any better. However, I was taught differently. As in Genesis 1:27, God created man in His own image, male and female He created them. We have part of the divine nature instilled in both our hearts and minds. We love and care for others, we have compassion, forgiveness, joy, etc. etc. Yes, we also have hate, greed, etc. etc. In this we have a choice, for love cannot be forced, it must be given freely or else it is not true. The sooner we choose to follow the things that God has put in our hearts and minds the better because we just end up wasting time.
Jeff, each of us is born with the divine nature as well. I think that this has much more of an influence on our lives and in the decisions that we make. I believe that a majority of people are good.

Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

Re: Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird